University of Virginia Library

Wednesday Augst. 8. in Convention

Art: IV. sect. 1.—Mr. Mercer expressed his dislike
of the whole plan, and his opinion that it never could
succeed.

Mr. Ghorum. he had never seen any inconveniency
from allowing such as were not freeholders to
vote, though it had long been tried. The elections
in Phila., N. York & Boston where the Merchants &
Mechanics vote are at least as good as those made by
freeholders only. The case in England was not accurately
stated yesterday (by Mr. Madison) The
Cities & large towns are not the seat of Crown influence
& corruption. These prevail in the Boroughs,
and not on account of the right which those who are
not freeholders have to vote, but of the smallness of
the number who vote. The people have been long
accustomed to this right in various parts of America,
and will never allow it to be abridged. We must
consult their rooted prejudices if we expect their
concurrence in our propositions.

Mr. Mercer did not object so much to an election

by the people at large including such as were not
freeholders, as to their being left to make their choice
without any guidance. He hinted that Candidates
ought to be nominated by the State Legislatures.

On the question for agreeing to Art: IV—Sect. 1
it passd. nem. con.

Art. IV. Sect. 2. taken up.

Col. Mason was for opening a wide door for emigrants;
but did not chuse to let foreigners and adventurers
make laws for us & govern us. Citizenship
for three years was not enough for ensuring that
local knowledge which ought to be possessed by the
Representative. This was the principal ground of
his objection to so short a term. It might also happen
that a rich foreign Nation, for example Great
Britain, might send over her tools who might bribe
their way into the Legislature for insidious purposes.
He moved that "seven" years instead of "three,"
be inserted.

Mr. Govr. Morris 2ded. the Motion, & on the question,
all the States agreed to it except Connecticut.

Mr. Sherman moved to strike out the word "resident"
and insert "inhabitant," as less liable to
misconstruction.

Mr. Madison 2ded. the motion, both were vague, but
the latter least so in common acceptation, and
would not exclude persons absent occasionally for a
considerable time on public or private business.
Great disputes had been raised in Virga. concerning
the meaning of residence as a qualification of Representatives
which were determined more according to

the affection or dislike to the man in question, than
to any fixt interpretation of the word.

Mr. Wilson preferred "inhabitant."

Mr. Govr. Morris, was opposed to both and for requiring
nothing more than a freehold. He quoted
great disputes in N. York occasioned by these terms,
which were decided by the arbitrary will of the majority.
Such a regulation is not necessary. People
rarely chuse a nonresident—It is improper as in the
1st. branch, the people at large, not the States, are
represented.

Mr. Rutlidge urged & moved, that a residence of 7
years shd. be required in the State Wherein the Member
shd. be elected. An emigrant from N. England to
S. C. or Georgia would know little of its affairs and
could not be supposed to acquire a thorough knowledge
in less time.

Mr. Read reminded him that we were now forming
a Natl. Govt. and such a regulation would correspond
little with the idea that we were one people.

Mr. Wilson. enforced the same consideration.

Mr. Madison suggested the case of new States in
the West, which could have perhaps no representation
on that plan.

Mr. Mercer. Such a regulation would present a
greater alienship among the States than existed
under the old federal system. It would interweave
local prejudices & State distinctions in the very
Constitution which is meant to cure them. He mentioned
instances of violent disputes raised in Maryland
concerning the term "residence."

Mr. Elseworth thought seven years of residence was
by far too long a term: but that some fixt term of
previous residence would be proper. He thought
one year would be sufficient, but seemed to have no
objection to three years.

Mr. Dickinson proposed that it should read "inhabitant
actually resident for—years." This
would render the meaning less indeterminate.

Mr. Wilson. If a short term should be inserted in
the blank, so strict an expression might be construed
to exclude the members of the Legislature,
who could not be said to be actual residents in their
States whilst at the Seat of the Genl. Government.

Mr. Mercer. It would certainly exclude men, who
had once been inhabitants, and returning from residence
elsewhere to resettle in their original State;
although a want of the necessary knowledge could
not in such cases be presumed.

Mr. Mason thought 7 years too long, but would
never agree to part with the principle. It is a valuable
principle. He thought it a defect in the plan
that the Representatives would be too few to bring
with them all the local knowledge necessary. If
residence be not required, Rich men of neighbouring
States, may employ with success the means of corruption
in some particular district and thereby get
into the public Councils after having failed in their
own State. This is the practice in the boroughs of
England.

On the question for postponing in order to consider
Mr. Dickinsons motion

N. H. no. Mass. no. Ct. no. N. J. no. Pa. no.
Del. no. Md. ay. Va. no. N. C. no. S. C. ay.
Geo. ay.

On the question for inserting "inhabitant" in
place of "resident"—agd. to nem. con.

Mr. Elseworth & Col. Mason move to insert "one
year" for previous inhabitancy.

Mr. Williamson liked the Report as it stood. He
thought "resident" a good eno' term. He was agst.
requiring any period of previous residence. New
residents if elected will be most zealous to conform
to the will of their constituents, as their conduct will
be watched with a more jealous eye.

Mr. Butler & Mr. Rutlidge moved "three years"
instead of "one year" for previous inhabitancy.

On the question for 3 years,

N. H. no. Mass. no. Ct. no. N. J. no. Pa. no.
Del. no. Md. no. Va. no. N. C. no. S. C. ay.
Geo. ay.

On the question for "1 year"

N. H. no—Mass. no. Ct. no. N. J. ay. Pa. no.
Del. no. Md. divd. Va. no. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

Art. IV. Sect. 2. as amended in manner preceding,
was agreed to nem. con.

Art. IV. Sect. 3. taken up.

Genl. Pinkney & Mr. Pinkney moved that the number
of Representatives allotted to S. Carola. be "six."
On the question,

N. H. no. Mass. no. Ct. no. N. J. no. Pa. no.
Delaware ay. Md. no. Va. no. N. C. ay. S. C. ay.
Geo. ay.

The 3. Sect of Art: IV, was then agreed to.

Art: IV. Sect. 4. taken up.

Mr. Williamson moved to strike out "according to
the provisions hereinafter made" and to insert the
words "according to the rule hereafter to be provided
for direct taxation. "—See Art. VII. Sect. 3.

On the question for agreeing to Mr. Williamson's
amendment

N. H. ay. Mass. ay. Ct. ay. N. J. no. Pa. ay.
Del. no. Md. ay. Va. ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay.
Geo. ay.

Mr. King wished to know what influence the vote
just passed was meant to have on the succeeding
part of the Report, concerning the admission of
Slaves into the rule of Representation. He could
not reconcile his mind to the article if it was to prevent
objections to the latter part. The admission of
slaves was a most grating circumstance to his mind,
& he believed would be so to a great part of the
people of America. He had not made a strenuous
opposition to it heretofore because he had hoped that
this concession would have produced a readiness
which had not been manifested, to strengthen the
Genl. Govt. and to mark a full confidence in it. The
Report under consideration had by the tenor of it,
put an end to all those hopes. In two great points
the hands of the Legislature were absolutely tied.
The importation of slaves could not be prohibited—
exports could not be taxed. Is this reasonable?
What are the great objects of the Genl. System?
1. defence agst. foreign invasion. 2. agst. internal sedition.

Shall all the States then be bound to defend
each; & shall each be at liberty to introduce a weakness
which will render defence more difficult? Shall
one part of the U. S. be bound to defend another
part, and that other part be at liberty not only to
increase its own danger, but to withhold the compensation
for the burden? If slaves are to be imported
shall not the exports produced by their labor,
supply a revenue the better to enable the Genl. Govt.
to defend their Masters? There was so much inequality
& unreasonableness in all this, that the
people of the Northern States could never be reconciled
to it. No candid man could undertake to
justify it to them. He had hoped that some accommodation
wd. have taken place on this subject; that
at least a time wd. have been limited for the importation
of slaves. He never could agree to let them be
imported without limitation & then be represented
in the Natl. Legislature. Indeed he could so little
persuade himself of the rectitude of such a practice,
that he was not sure he could assent to it under any
circumstances. At all events, either slaves should
not be represented, or exports should be taxable.

Mr. Sherman regarded the slave trade as iniquitous;
but the point of representation having been settled
after much difficulty & deliberation, he did not think
himself bound to make opposition; especially as the
present article as amended did not preclude any
arrangement whatever on that point in another place
of the Report.

Mr. Madison objected to 1 for every 40.000 inhabitants

as a perpetual rule. The future increase of
population if the Union shd. be permanent, will render
the number of Representatives excessive.

Mr. Ghorum. It is not to be supposed that the
Govt. will last so long as to produce this effect. Can
it be supposed that this vast Country including the
Western territory will 150 years hence remain one
nation?

Mr. Elseworth. If the Govt. should continue so
long, alterations may be made in the Constitution in
the manner proposed in a subsequent article.

Mr. Sherman & Mr. Madison moved to insert the
words "not exceeding," before the words "1 for
every 40.000. which was agreed to nem. con.

Mr. Govr. Morris moved to insert "free" before the
word inhabitants. Much he said would depend on
this point. He never would concur in upholding
domestic slavery. It was a nefarious institution. It
was the curse of heaven on the States where it prevailed.
Compare the free regions of the Middle
States, where a rich & noble cultivation marks the
prosperity & happiness of the people, with the misery
& poverty which overspread the barren wastes of
Va. Mayrd. & the other States having slaves. Travel
thro' ye. whole Continent & you behold the prospect
continually varying with the appearance & disappearance
of slavery. The moment you leave ye.
E. States & enter N. York, the effects of the institution
become visible, passing thro' the Jerseys &
entering Pa. every criterion of superior improvement
witnesses the change. Proceed southwdly & every

step you take throye. great regions of slaves presents
a desert increasing, with ye. increasing [word is illegible]
proportion of these wretched beings. Upon
what principle is it that the slaves shall be computed
in the representation? Are they men? Then
make them Citizens and let them vote. Are they
property? Why then is no other property included?
The Houses in this city (Philada.) are worth more than
all the wretched Slaves which cover the rice swamps
of South Carolina. The admission of slaves into the
Representation when fairly explained comes to this:
that the inhabitant of Georgia and S. C. who goes
to the Coast of Africa, and in defiance of the most
sacred laws of humanity tears away his fellow creatures
from their dearest connections & damns them
to the most cruel bondages, shall have more votes
in a Govt. instituted for protection of the rights
of mankind, than the Citizen of Pa. or N. Jersey who
views with a laudable horror, so nefarious a practice.
He would add that Domestic slavery is the most
prominent feature in the aristocratic countenance of
the proposed Constitution. The vassalage of the
poor has ever been the favorite offspring of Aristocracy.
And What is the proposed compensation to
the Northern States for a sacrifice of every principle
Of right, of every impulse of humanity. They are
to bind themselves to march their militia for the
defence of the S. States; for their defence agst. those
very slaves of whom they complain. They must
supply vessels & seamen in case of foreign Attack.
The Legislature will have indefinite power to tax
them by excises, and duties on imports: both of
which will fall heavier on them than on the Southern
inhabitants; for the bohae tea used by a Northern
freeman, will pay more tax than the whole consumption
of the miserable slave, which consists of nothing
more than his physical subsistence and the rag that
covers his nakedness. On the other side the Southern
States are not to be restrained from importing
fresh supplies of wretched Africans, at once to increase
the danger of attack, and the difficulty of defence;
nay they are to be encouraged to it by an
assurance of having their votes in the Natl. Govt.
increased in proportion, and are at the same time to
have their exports & their slaves exempt from all
contributions for the public service. Let it not be
said that direct taxation is to be proportioned to
representation. It is idle to suppose that the Genl.
Govt. can stretch its hand directly into the pockets
of the people scattered over so vast a Country. They
can only do it through the medium of exports imports
& excises. For What then are all the sacrifices
to be made? He would sooner submit himself to a
tax for paying for all the negroes in the U. States,
than saddle posterity with such a Constitution.

Mr. Dayton 2ded. the motion. He did it he said that
his sentiments on the subject might appear whatever
might be the fate of the amendment.

Mr. Sherman, did not regard the admission of the
Negroes into the ratio of representation, as liable to
such insuperable objections. It was the freemen of
the Southn. States who were in fact to be represented

according to the taxes paid by them, and the Negroes
are only included in the Estimate of the taxes.
This was his idea of the matter.

Mr. Pinkney, considered the fisheries & the Western
frontier as more burthensome to the U. S. than the
slaves. He thought this could be demonstrated if
the occasion were a proper one.

Mr. Wilson, thought the motion premature. An
agreement to the clause would be no bar to the object
of it.

Question On motion to insert "free" before "inhabitants,

N. H. no. Mass. no. Ct. no. N. J. ay. Pa. no.
Del. no. Md. no. Va. no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo.
no.

On the suggestion of Mr. Dickinson the words, "provided
that each State shall have one representative
at least,"—were added nem. con.

Art. IV. Sect. 4. as amended was agreed to con.
nem.

Art. IV. Sect. 5. taken up

Mr. Pinkney moved to strike out Sect. 5. As giving
no peculiar advantage to the House of Representatives,
and as clogging the Govt. If the Senate can
be trusted with the many great powers proposed, it
surely may be trusted with that of originating money
bills.

Mr. Ghorum. was agst. allowing the Senate to originate;
but only to amend.

Mr. Govr. Morris. It is particularly proper that the
Senate shd. have the right of originating money bills.

They will sit constantly, will consist of a smaller
number, and will be able to prepare such bills with
due correctness; and so as to prevent delay of business
in the other House.

Col. Mason was unwilling to travel over this ground
again. To strike out the Section, was to unhinge the
compromise of which it made a part. The duration
of the Senate made it improper. He does not object
to that duration. On the Contrary he approved of
it. But joined with the smallness of the number, it
was an argument against adding this to the other
great powers vested in that body. His idea of an
Aristocracy was that it was the governt. of the few
over the many. An aristocratic body, like the
screw in mechanics, workg its way by slow degrees,
and holding fast whatever it gains, should ever be
suspected of an encroaching tendency. The purse
strings should never be put into its hands.

Mr. Mercer, considered the exclusive power of originating
Money bills as so great an advantage, that it
rendered the equality of votes in the Senate ideal
& of no consequence.

Mr. Butler was for adhering to the principle which
had been settled.

Mr. Wilson was opposed to it on its merits without
regard to the compromise.

Mr. Elseworth did not think the clause of any consequence,
but as it was thought of consequence by
some members from the larger States, he was willing
it should stand.

Mr. Madison was for striking it out; considering it

as of no advantage to the large States as fettering
the Govt. and as a source of injurious altercations
between the two Houses.

On the question for striking out "Sect. 5, Art. IV"

N. H. no. Mass. no. Ct. no. N. J. ay. Pa. ay.
Del. ay. Md. ay. Va. ay. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo.
ay.

Adjd.