University of Virginia Library

Thursday, August 16. in Convention.

Mr. Randolph having thrown into a new form the
motion putting votes, Resolutions &c. on a footing

with Bills, renewed it as follows—"Every order resolution
or vote, to which the concurrence of the
Senate & House of Reps. may be necessary (except
on a question of adjournment and in the cases hereinafter
mentioned) shall be presented to the President
for his revision; and before the same shall have
force shall be approved by him, or being disapproved
by him shall be repassed by the Senate & House of
Reps. according to the rules & limitations prescribed
in the case of a Bill."

Mr. Sherman thought it unnecessary, except as to
votes taking money out of the Treasury which might
be provided for in another place.

On Question as moved by Mr. Randolph

N. H. ay. Mass. not present. Ct. ay. N. J. no.
Pa. ay. Del. ay. Md. ay. Va. ay. N. C. ay. S. C.
ay. Geo. ay.

The Amendment was made section 14. of Art. VI.

Art: VII. Sect. 1. taken up.

Mr. L. Martin asked what was meant by the Committee
of detail in the expression,—"duties" and
"imposts." If the meaning were the same, the former
was unnecessary; if different, the matter ought
to be made clear.

Mr. Wilson. duties are applicable to many objects
to which the word imposts does not relate.
The latter are appropriated to commerce; the former
extend to a variety of objects, as stamp duties
&c.

Mr. Carroll reminded the Convention of the great
difference of interests among the States, and doubts

the propriety in that point of view of letting a majority
be a quorum.

Mr. Mason urged the necessity of connecting with
the power of levying taxes duties &c, the prohibition
in Sect. 4 Art. VI that no tax should be laid on exports.
He was unwilling to trust to its being done
in a future article. He hoped the Northn. States did
not mean to deny the Southern this security. It
would hereafter be as desirable to the former when
the latter should become the most populous. He
professed his jealousy for the productions of the
Southern or as he called them, the staple States.
He moved to insert the following amendment: "provided
that no tax duty or imposition shall be laid by
the Legislature of the U. States on articles exported
from any State"

Mr. Sherman had no objection to the proviso here,
other than it would derange the parts of the report
as made by the Committee, to take them in such an
order.

Mr. Rutlidge. It being of no consequence in what
order points are decided, he should vote for the clause
as it stood, but on condition that the subsequent part
relating to negroes should also be agreed to.

Mr. Governeur Morris considered such a proviso
as inadmissible any where. It was so radically objectionable,
that it might cost the whole system the
support of some members. He contended that it
would not in some cases be equitable to tax imports
without taxing exports; and that taxes on exports
would be often the most easy and proper of the two.

Mr. Madison. 1. the power of laying taxes on exports
is proper in itself, and as the States cannot
with propriety exercise it separately, it ought to be
vested in them collectively. 2. it might with particular
advantage be exercised with regard to articles
in which America was not rivalled in foreign markets,
as Tob°. &c The contract between the French Farmers
Genl. and Mr. Morris stipulating that if taxes sd.
be laid in america on the export of Tob°. they sd. be
paid by the Farmers, shewed that it was understood
by them, that the price would be thereby raised in
America, and consequently the taxes be paid by the
European Consumer. 3. it would be unjust to the
States whose produce was exported by their neighbours,
to leave it subject to be taxed by the latter.
This was a grievance which had already filled N. H.
Cont. N. Jery. Del: and N. Carolina with loud complaints,
as it related to imports, and they would be
equally authorized by taxes by the States on exports.
4. The Southn. States being most in danger and most
needing naval protection, could the less complain if
the burthen should be somewhat heaviest on them.
5. we are not providing for the present moment only,
and time will equalize the situation of the States in this
matter. He was for these reasons agst. the motion.

Mr. Williamson considered the clause proposed agst.
taxes on exports as reasonable and necessary.

Mr. Elseworth was agst. Taxing exports; but
thought the prohibition stood in the most proper
place, and was agst. deranging the order reported by
the Committee.

Mr. Wilson was decidedly agst. prohibiting general
taxes on exports. He dwelt on the injustice and
impolicy of leaving N. Jersey Connecticut &c any
longer subject to the exactions of their commercial
neighbours.

Mr. Gerry thought the legislature could not be
trusted with such a power. It might ruin the
Country. It might be exercised partially, raising
one and depressing another part of it.

Mr. Govr. Morris. However the legislative power
may be formed, it will if disposed be able to ruin the
Country. He considered the taxing of exports to
be in many cases highly politic Virginia has found
her account in taxing Tobacco. All Countries having
peculiar articles tax the exportation of them; as
France her wines and brandies. A tax here on
lumber, would fall on the W. Indies & punish their
restrictions on our trade. The same is true of live
stock and in some degree of flour. In case of a
dearth in the West Indies, we may extort what we
please. Taxes on exports are a necessary source of
revenue. For a long time the people of America
will not have money to pay direct taxes. Seize
and sell their effects and you push them into Revolts.

Mr. Mercer was strenuous against giving Congress
power to tax exports. Such taxes are impolitic, as
encouraging the raising of articles not meant for exportation.
The States had now a right where their
situation permitted, to tax both the imports and the
exports of their uncommercial neighbours. It was

enough for them to sacrifice one half of it. It had
been said the Southern States had most need of
naval protection. The reverse was the case. Were
it not for promoting the carrying trade of the Northn.
States, the Southn. States could let the trade go into
foreign bottoms, where it would not need our protection.
Virginia by taxing her tobacco had given
an advantage to that of Maryland.

Mr. Sherman. To examine and compare the States
in relation to imports and exports will be opening a
boundless field. He thought the matter had been
adjusted, and that imports were to be subject, and
exports not, to be taxed. He thought it wrong to
tax exports except it might be such articles as ought
not to be exported. The complexity of the business
in America would render an equal tax on exports
impracticable. The oppression of the uncommercial
States was guarded agst. by the power to regulate
trade between the States. As to compelling foreigners,
that might be done by regulating trade in
general. The Government would not be trusted
with such a power. Objections are most likely to
be excited by considerations relating to taxes &
money. A power to tax exports would shipwreck
the whole.

Mr. Carrol was surprised that any objection should
be made to an exception of exports from the power
of taxation.

It was finally agreed that the question concerning
exports shd. lie over for the place in which the exception
stood in the report: Maryd. alone voting agst. it

Sect: 1. (Art. VII) agreed to; Mr. Gerry alone
answering, no.

Clause for regulating commerce with foreign nations
&c. agreed to nem. con.
for coining money, agd. to nem. con.
for regulating foreign coin. d°. d°.
for fixing standard of weights & measures.
d°. d°.

"To establish post-offices," Mr. Gerry moved to
add, and post-roads. Mr. Mercer 2ded. & on question
N. H. no. Mass. ay. Ct. no. N. J. no. Pena. no.
Del. ay. Md. ay. Va. ay. N. C. no. S. C. ay.
Geo. ay.

Mr. Govr. Morris moved to strike out "and emit
bills on the credit of the U. States"—If the United
States had credit such bills would be unnecessary; if
they had not, unjust & useless.

Mr. Butler, 2ds. the motion.

Mr. Madison, will it not be sufficient to prohibit the
making them a tender? This will remove the temptation
to emit them with unjust views. And promissory
notes in that shape may in some emergencies be
best.

Mr. Govr. Morris, striking out the words will leave
room still for notes of a responsible minister which
will do all the good without the mischief. The
Monied interest will oppose the plan of Government,
if paper emissions be not prohibited.

Mr. Ghorum was for striking out, without inserting
any prohibition, if the words stand they may suggest
and lead to the measure.

Col. Mason had doubts on the subject. Congs. he
thought would not have the power unless it were
expressed. Though he had a mortal hatred to
paper money, yet as he could not forsee all emergencies,
he was unwilling to tie the hands of the
Legislature. He observed that the late war could
not have been carried on, had such a prohibition
existed.

Mr. Ghorum. The power as far as it will be
necessary or safe, is involved in that of borrowing.

Mr. Mercer was a friend to paper money, though in
the present state & temper of America, he should
neither propose nor approve of such a measure. He
was consequently opposed to a prohibition of it
altogether. It will stamp suspicion on the Government
to deny it a discretion on this point. It was
impolitic also to excite the opposition of all those
who were friends to paper money. The people of
property would be sure to be on the side of the plan,
and it was impolitic to purchase their further attachment
with the loss of the opposite class of
Citizens.

Mr. Elseworth thought this a favorable moment to
shut and bar the door against paper money. The
mischiefs of the various experiments which had been
made, were now fresh in the public mind and had
excited the disgust of all the respectable part of
America. By withholding the power from the new
Governt. more friends of influence would be gained
to it than by almost any thing else. Paper money
can in no case be necessary. Give the Government

credit, and other resources will offer. The power
may do harm, never good.

Mr. Randolph, notwithstanding his antipathy to
paper money, could not agree to strike out the words,
as he could not foresee all the occasions that might
arise.

Mr. Wilson. It will have a most salutary influence
on the credit of the U. States to remove the possibility
of paper money. This expedient can never
succeed whilst its mischiefs are remembered. And
as long as it can be resorted to, it will be a bar to
other resources.

Mr. Butler remarked that paper was a legal tender
in no Country in Europe. He was urgent for disarming
the Government of such a power.

Mr. Mason was still averse to tying the hands of the
Legislature altogether. If there was no example in
Europe as just remarked it might be observed on the
other side, that there was none in which the Government
was restrained on this head.

Mr. Read, thought the words, if not struck; out,
would be as alarming as the mark of the Beast in
Revelations.

Mr. Langdon had rather reject the whole plan than
retain the three words (" and emit bills")

On the motion for striking out

N. H. ay. Mass. ay. Ct. ay. N. J. no. Pa. ay.
Del. ay. Md. no. Va. ay.[31] N. C. ay. S. C. ay.
Geo. ay.

The clause for borrowing money, agreed to nem.
con.

Adjd.