University of Virginia Library

Thursday, July 12. In Convention.

Mr. Govr. Morris moved to add to the clause empowering
the Legislature to vary the Representation
according to the principles of wealth & numbers of
inhabts. a "proviso that taxation shall be in proportion
to Representation."

Mr. Butler contended again that Representation
sd. be according to the full number of inhabts. including
all the blacks; admitting the justice of
Mr. Govr. Morris's motion.

Mr. Mason also admitted the justice of the principle,

but was afraid embarrassments might be occasioned
to the Legislature by it. It might drive the
Legislature to the plan of Requisitions.

Mr. Govr. Morris, admitted that some objections
lay agst. his Motion, but supposed they would be
removed by restraining the rule to direct taxation.
With regard to indirect taxes on exports & imports
& on consumption the rule would be inapplicable.
Notwithstanding what had been said to the contrary
he was persuaded that the imports & consumption
were pretty nearly equal throughout the
Union.

General Pinkney liked the idea. He thought it
so just that it could not be objected to. But foresaw
that if the revision of the census was left to the
discretion of the Legislature, it would never be
carried into execution. The rule must be fixed,
and the execution of it enforced by the Constitution.
He was alarmed at what was said[125] yesterday, concerning
the Negroes. He was now again alarmed
at what had been thrown out concerning the taxing
of exports. S. Carola. has in one year exported to
the amount of £600,000 Sterling all which was
the fruit of the labor of her blacks. Will she be
represented in proportion to this amount? She will
not. Neither ought she then to be subject to a tax
on it. He hoped a clause would be inserted in
the system, restraining the Legislature from taxing
Exports.

Mr. Wilson approved the principle, but could not

see how it could be carried into execution; unless
restrained to direct taxation.

Mr. Govr. Morris having so varied his Motion by
inserting the word "direct." It passd. nem. con. as
follows—"provided always that direct taxation
ought to be proportioned to representation."

Mr. Davie said it was high time now to speak out.
He saw that it was meant by some gentlemen to deprive
the Southern States of any share of Representation
for their blacks. He was sure that N. Carola.
would never confederate on any terms that did not
rate them at least as 3/5. If the Eastern States meant
therefore to exclude them altogether the business
was at an end.

Dr. Johnson, thought that wealth and population
were the true, equitable rule of representation; but
he conceived that these two principles resolved
themselves into one; population being the best
measure of wealth. He concluded therefore that
ye. number of people ought to be established as the
rule, and that all descriptions including blacks
equally with the Whites, ought to fall within the
computation. As various opinions had been expressed
on the subject, he would move that a Committee
might be appointed to take them into
consideration and report thereon.

Mr. Govr. Morris. It has been said that it is high
time to speak out, as one member, he would candidly
do so. He came here to form a compact for
the good of America. He was ready to do so with
all the States. He hoped & believed that all would

enter into such a Compact. If they would not he
was ready to join with any States that would. But
as the Compact was to be voluntary, it is in vain
for the Eastern States to insist on what the Southn.
States will never agree to. It is equally vain for
the latter to require what the other States can never
admit; and he verily believed the people of Pena.
will never agree to a representation of Negroes.
What can be desired by these States more than has
been already proposed; that the Legislature shall
from time to time regulate Representation according
to population & wealth.

Genl. Pinkney desired that the rule of wealth
should be ascertained and not left to the pleasure of
the Legislature; and that property in slaves should
not be exposed to danger under a Govt. instituted for
the protection of property.

The first clause in the Report of the first Grand
Committee was postponed

Mr. Elseworth. In order to carry into effect the
principle established, moved that to add to the last
clause adopted by the House the words following,
"and that the rule of contribution by direct taxation
for the support of the Government of the U. States
shall be the number of white inhabitants, and
three fifths of every other description in the several
States, until some other rule that shall more accurately
ascertain the wealth of the several States can
be devised and adopted by the Legislature."

Mr. Butler seconded the motion in order that it
might be committed.

Mr. Randolph was not satisfied with the motion.
The danger will be revived that the ingenuity of the
Legislature may evade or pervert the rule so as to
perpetuate the power where it shall be lodged in the
first instance. He proposed in lieu of Mr. Elseworth's
motion, "that in order to ascertain the alterations
in Representation that may be required
from time to time by changes in the relative circumstances
of the States, a Census shall be taken within
two years from the 1st. meeting of the Genl. Legislature
of the U. S. and once within the term of every
———year afterwards, of all the inhabitants in the
manner & according to the ratio recommended by
Congress in their resolution of the 18th. day of Apl.
1783, (rating the blacks at 3/5 of their number) and
that the Legislature of the U. S. shall arrange the
Representation accordingly." He urged strenuously
that express security ought to be provided for
including slaves in the ratio of Representation. He
lamented that such a species of property existed.
But as it did exist the holders of it would require this
security. It was perceived that the design was entertained
by some of excluding slaves altogether; the
Legislature therefore ought not to be left at liberty.

Mr. Elseworth withdraws his motion & seconds
that of Mr. Randolph.

Mr. Wilson observed that less umbrage would perhaps
be taken agst. an admission of the slaves into the
Rule of representation, if it should be so expressed as
to make them indirectly only an ingredient in the
rule, by saying that they should enter into the rule

of taxation; and as representation was to be according
to taxation, the end would be equally attained.
He accordingly moved & was 2ded. so to
alter the last clause adopted by the House, that together
with the amendment proposed the whole
should read as follows—provided always that the
representation ought to be proportioned according
to direct taxation, and in order to ascertain the
alterations in the direct taxation which may be required
from time to time by the changes in the relative
circumstances of the States, Resolved that a
census be taken within two years from the first meeting
of the Legislature of the U. States, and once
within the term of every——— years afterwards of all
the inhabitants of the U. S. in the manner and according
to the ratio recommended by Congress in
their Resolution of April 18. 1783; and that the
Legislature of the U. S. shall proportion the direct
taxation accordingly.

Mr. King. Altho' this amendment varies the aspect
somewhat, he had still two powerful objections
agst. tying down the Legislature to the rule of numbers,
1. they were at this time an uncertain index of
the relative wealth of the States. 2. if they were a
just index at this time it can not be supposed always
to continue so. He was far from wishing to retain
any unjust advantage whatever in one part of the
Republic. If justice was not the basis of the connection
it could not be of long duration. He must
be shortsighted indeed who does not foresee that
whenever the Southern States shall be more numerous

than the Northern, they can & will hold a language
that will awe them into justice. If they
threaten to separate now in case injury shall be done
them, will their threats be less urgent or effectual,
when force shall back their demands. Even in the
intervening period, there will be no point of time at
which they will not be able to say, do us justice or we
will separate. He urged the necessity of placing
confidence to a certain degree in every Govt. and did
not conceive that the proposed confidence as to a
periodical readjustment of the representation exceeded
that degree.

Mr. Pinkney moved to amend Mr. Randolph's motion
so as to make "blacks equal to the whites in the
ratio of representation." This he urged was nothing
more than justice. The blacks are the labourers,
the peasants of the Southern States: they are as
productive of pecuniary resources as those of the
Northern States. They add equally to the wealth,
and considering money as the sinew of war, to the
strength of the nation. It will also be politic with
regard to the Northern States, as taxation is to keep
pace with Representation.

Genl. Pinkney moves to insert 6 years instead of
two, as the period computing from the 1st. meeting of
ye. Legise. within which the first census should be
taken. On this question for inserting six, instead
of "two" in the proposition of Mr. Wilson, it passed
in the affirmative

Massts. no. Ct. ay. N. J. ay. Pa. ay. Del. divd.
Mayd. ay. Va. no. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. no.

On a question for filling the blank for ye. periodical
census with 20 years, it passed in the negative

Massts. no. Ct. ay. N. J. ay. P. ay. Del. no.
Md. no. Va. no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

On a question for 10 years, it passed in the affirmative.

Mass. ay. Cont. no. N. J. no. P. ay. Del. ay.
Md. ay. Va. ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

On Mr. Pinkney's motion for rating blacks as equal
to Whites instead of as 3/5.

Mass. no. Cont. no. (Dr. Johnson ay) N. J. no.
Pa. no. (3 agst. 2.) Del. no. Md. no. Va. no. N. C.
no. S. C. ay. Geo—ay.

Mr. Randolph's proposition as varied by Mr. Wilson
being read for question on the whole—

Mr. Gerry, urged that the principle of it could not
be carried into execution as the States were not to be
taxed as States. With regard to taxes in imposts,
he conceived they would be more productive Where
there were no slaves than where there were; the consumption
being greater—

Mr. Elseworth. In case of a poll tax there wd. be no
difficulty. But there wd. probably be none. The
sum allotted to a State may be levied without difficulty
according to the plan used by the State in
raising its own supplies. On the question of ye.
whole proposition; as proportioning representation
to direct taxation & both to the white & 3/5 of black
inhabitants, & requiring a Census within six years—
& within every ten years afterwards.

Mass, divd. Cont. ay. N. J. no. Pa. ay. Del. no.
Md. ay. Va. ay. N. C. ay. S. C. divd. Geo. ay.