The writings of James Madison, comprising his public papers and his private correspondence, including numerous letters and documents now for the first time printed. |
 | SPEECHES IN THE FIRST CONGRESS—SECOND SESSION,
1790 (Continued). |
 |
|
 | The writings of James Madison, |  |
THE WRITINGS OF
JAMES MADISON.
SPEECHES IN THE FIRST CONGRESS—SECOND SESSION,
1790 (Continued).
MAY 14—DISCRIMINATING TONNAGE DUES.[1]
Mr. Madison replied to the several arguments against his
motion. A gentleman, said he, (Mr. Sedgwick,) had called it
a "measure of passion." He observed that it had neither
been dictated by passion, nor supported with passion; he
considered it as a cool as well as a proper measure, and believed
that the more coolly it was examined, the more proper
it would appear. If any thing more were to be done, let it
be something that will be effectual.
As to the distinction proposed between nations in treaty
and not in treaty, that point had been discussed and decided
yesterday, and was no part of the argument to-day. It was
agreed on all hands, that the measure reported by the committee
was levelled against a particular nation, though it was
not named. Why then ostensibly involve other nations for
whom it was not intended; and by making no difference in
favor of those in treaty, teach others to consider a treaty with
us as of no value? He said, we were the less restrained from
making the distinction, because the nation against which the
measures were designed to operate, had not hesitated to set
the example, as far as her supposed interest went. He had
before shown, that the principle on which the trade with the
West Indies was regulated by Great Britain, was a departure
from the principle of her navigation act: according to that
act, all other nations were allowed to carry directly their own
produce in their own vessels, wherever the same trade was
allowed by the act to British vessels. A gentleman from
Pennsylvania (Mr. Fitzsimons) was afraid the measure was
too bold a one. But why was it too bold, if, as the weighty
information and arguments of the gentleman himself had
Indies, and the prosperity of Great Britain depended so
materially on the trade with the United States, that it would
be madness in her to hazard an interruption of it?
Mr. M. then proceeded to review the European and West
India commerce of the United States. He stated the imports
to be, from Europe, about £3,039,000; from the West Indies,
£927,438: total, £3,966,438. The exports to Europe, £3,203,448;
to the West Indies, £941,552: total, £4,244,000.
He stated the export and return freight to Europe to be
estimated at £500,000: to the West Indies, £250,000: total,
£750,000. For the return freight, which was estimated at
one-tenth of the export freight, he deducted £45,454 105.,
which left for the value of the export freight to Europe £454,545
105. By applying a like rule to the West India freight,
he made the total export freight to amount to £681,818 55.; of
this he computed two-thirds, or £454,545 105., to be enjoyed
by British vessels. He took notice here, that the proportion
of foreign to British tonnage, employed in the exports, of
Great Britain, was stated by Lord Sheffield as no more than
one to twelve.
The amount of the freight, at two pounds sterling per ton,
employs 227,272 tons of shipping; or, allowing two voyages
a year, 568 vessels of 200 tons burden each.
The shipping, allowing six men to 100 tons, employs 6,816
seamen; or allowing one man to fifteen tons, which was perhaps
a letter estimate, 7,575 seamen.
He asked whether it was conceivable that Great Britain
would give up all these advantages, rather than put the commerce
of the two countries on such a footing as would be
reasonable and reciprocal? Whether she would throw away,
and into her rival's hands too, a freight of near half a million
sterling? Whether she could bear to see between five and
six hundred vessels rotting in port, or sold to others to be
employed in the business, sacrificed by her? He asked what
would become of seven or eight thousand seamen, thus turned
the service of other nations, and particularly of the United
States, to be employed in the exportation of our produce?
He took notice of the immense loss that would be sustained
by the British merchants on the capital employed in the American
trade, particularly the rice and tobacco. Near one hundred
thousand hogshead of tobacco, not more than ten or
twelve thousand of which were consumed in Great Britain,
annually went almost all through their hands. The same
thing might be said of one hundred thousand barrels of rice
annually exported from the United States.
The manufacturers, he said, would be still more distressed
by the want of the American market. Many articles, which
were luxuries to this country, and which it would be better
without, gave bread to that class of people. Their distresses
would increase the spirit of emigration, already so much
dreaded by the policy of that nation. He observed, that
Great Britain would be the more unwilling to risk an interruption
of her trade to the United States, because it would
hasten the establishment of American manufactures, which
she had always endeavored to prevent, and thereby cut off
forever this important market for her. Such a danger would
be particularly alarming, as her three great staple manufactures,
of leather, iron, and wool, were those which were
making the greatest progress in this country, and would be
the most aided at her expense.
As to the British West Indies, it had been fully shown that
they could neither prosper nor subsist without the market of
the United States; they were fed from our granaries. Without
our lumber, which, it was admitted, could be supplied no
where else, they could not carry on their trade, or support
their establishments. In the sale of their rum, on which the
profits of their labor essentially depended, they had no resource
but in the consumption of this country. He said, the
whole amount of rum sent to other foreign countries did not
exceed eight or nine hundred thousand gallons, which was
States; besides their loss in this respect, they would have the
mortification to see the vacancy in our market filled by rum
made from molasses supplied by rival islands. In case of war,
which happened every ten or twelve years, or a season of
famine, which happened every three or four, he said the condition
of the British islands must evidently be such, that she
could not fail to provide against the contingency by proper
concessions, unless she should infer from our conduct that
they are not necessary.
He added, as a consideration which he thought of great
weight, in favor of the measure, that in case any negotiations
should take place it would put our Executive on proper
ground. At present the trade with Great Britain was precisely
in that situation which her interest required, and her
King could moreover regulate it according to circumstances.
On our part, the Executive could neither offer nor withdraw
anything. He could offer nothing, because Great Britain was
already in possession of every commercial privilege she desired.
He could not say, give us reciprocal privileges, or yours
shall be withdrawn, because this must be done by a legislative
act. By passing the act proposed, the Executive will be
enabled to speak a language proper for the occasion. He can
say, if you do not give the United States proper privileges,
those given to you shall not be continued.[2]
See vol. v., p. 339 and 340, n. Madison's motion introduced this
day was:
"That from and after the—day of—next the tonnage on all
such vessels be raised to—; and from and after the—day of—
next no such vessel shall be permitted to export from the United States
any unmanufactured article being the growth and produce thereof."
This having been disagreed to he offered June 30th the following:
"And be it further enacted, That in all cases where vessels belonging to
the citizens of the United States may be prohibited from bringing any
articles from any foreign port or place, by laws or regulations of the
sovereign thereof, into any port or place within the United States, the
vessels belonging wholly or in part to the subjects of such sovereign
shall, after the—day of—during the continuance of such
prohibition, be prohibited from bringing like articles into the United
States, on pain of being seized and forfeited to their use. And the
masters or owners of all foreign vessels clearing from any port of the
United States, with any articles, the growth, produce, or manufacture
thereof, shall give bond, with sufficient security, that no part of the
said articles shall be delivered at any port or place to which vessels
belonging to citizens of the United States may not be permitted to
transport like articles from the United States.
"And be it further enacted, That in all cases where vessels belonging
to citizens of the United States may be prohibited by the laws or
regulations of that foreign country from carrying thereto articles not
the growth, produce, or manufacture of the United States the vessels
belonging wholly or in part to the subjects, citizens, or inhabitants of
such country shall, after the—day of—and during the continuance
be such prohibition, be prohibited in like manner from bringing
any articles not the growth, produce, or manufacture of such country
into the United States, on pain of being seized and forfeited to their
use."
TO EDMUND PENDLETON.
Your recommendation of Doc.r M (illegible) was handed me some
time ago. I need not tell you that I shall always rely on your vouchers
for merit, or that I shall equally be pleased with opportunities of forwarding
your wishes.
The only Act of much consequence which the present Session has yet
produced, is one for enumerating the Inhabitants as the basis of a
reapportionment of the Representation. The House of Rep.s has been
chiefly employed of late on the Report of the Sec.y of the Treasury. As
it has been printed in all the Newspapers I take for granted that it
must have fallen under your eye. The plan which it proposes is in
general well digested, and illustrated & supported by very able reasoning.
It has not however met with universal concurrence in every
part. I have myself been of the number who could not suppress
objections. I have not been able to persuade myself that the transactions
between the U. S. and those whose services were most instrumental
in saving their country, did in fact extinguish the claims
of the latter on the justice of the former; or that there must not be
something radically wrong in suffering those who rendered a bona fide
consideration to lose 7/8 of their dues, and those who have no particular
merit towards their country to gain 7 or 8 times as much as they
advanced. In pursuance of this view of the subject, a proposition
was made for redressing in some degree, the inequality. After much
discussion, a large majority was in the negative. The subject at
present before a Committee of the whole, is the proposed assumption
of the State debts. On this, Opinions seem to be pretty equally
divided. Virg.a is endeavoring to incorporate with the measure some
effectual provision for a final settlement and payment of balances
among the States. Even with this ingredient, the project will neither
be just nor palatable, if the assumption be referred to the present
epoch, and by that means deprives the States who have done most, of
the benefit of their exertions. We have accordingly made an effort,
but without success to refer the assumption to the state of the debts at
the close of the war. This would probably add 1/3 more to the amount
of the Debts, but would more than compensate for this by rendering
the measure more just & satisfactory. A simple unqualified assumption
of the existing debts would bear peculiarly hard on Virginia.
She has paid I believe a greater part of her quotas since the peace
titan Mass.ts She suffered far more during the war. It is agreed that
she will not be less a Creditor on the final settlement, yet if such an
assumption were to take place she would pay towards the discharge
of the debts, in the proportion of 1/5 and receive back to her Creditor
Citizens 1/7 or 1/8, whilst Mass.ts would pay not more than 1/7 or 1/8, and
receive back not less than 1/5. The case of S. Carol.a is a still stronger
contrast. In answer to this inequality we are referred to the final
liquidation for which provision may be made. But this may possibly
never take place. It will probably be at some distance. The payment
of the balances among the States will be a fresh source of delay
& difficulties. The merits of the plan independently of the question
of equity, are also controvertible, tho' on the other side there are advantages
which have considerable weight.
We have no late information from Europe more than what the
Newspapers contain. France seems likely to carry thro' the great
work in which she has been laboring. The Austrian Netherlands
have caught the flame, and with arms in their hands have renounced
the Government of the Emperor forever. Even the lethargy of Spain
begins to awake at the voice of liberty which is summoning her
neighbors to its standard. All Europe must by degrees be aroused
to the recollection and assertion of the rights of human nature. Your
good will to mankind will be gratified with this prospect, and your
pleasure as an American be enhanced by the reflection that the light
which is chasing darkness & despotism from the old World, is but an
emanation from that which has procured and succeeded the establishment
of liberty in the new.—Mad. MSS.
TO EDMUND RANDOLPH.
I have rec.d the few lines you dropped me from Baltimore, and
daily expect those promised from Fredg. I am made somewhat anxious
on the latter point, by the indisposition under which you were
travelling.
The question depending at your departure was negatived by a
very large majority, though less than stated in the Newspapers. The
causes of this disproportion which exceeds greatly the estimate you
carried with you cannot be altogether explained. Some of them you
will conjecture. Others. I reserve for conversation if the subject
should ever enter into it. As far as I have heard, the prevailing
sense of the people at large does not coincide with the decision, and
that delay and other means might have produced a very different
result.
The assumption of the State debts has of late employed most the
H. of Reps. A majority of 5 agreed to the measure in Come. of the
Whole. But it is yet, to pass many defiles, and its enemies will soon
be reinforced by N. Carolina. The event is consequently very doubtful.
It could not be admissible to Virga. unless subservient to final
justice, or so varied as to be more consistent with intermediate justice.
In neither of these respects has Va. been satisfied, and the whole
delegation is agst. the measure except Bland ! ![5]
The substance of the Secretary's arrangements of the Debts of the
Union has been agreed to in Come of the Whole and will probably be
agreed to by the House. The number of alterations have been reduced
for the sake of greater simplicity, and a disposition appears
at present, to shorten the duration of the Debt. According to the
Report, the Debt wd subsist 40 or 50 years, which, considering intermediate
probabilities, amounts to a perpetuity. Adieu
Mr. Jefferson is not arrived. He has notified his acceptance & is
expected in a day or two.—Mad. MSS.
Bland who had been an opponent of the adoption of the constitution
had changed his views. March 9, 1790, he wrote to Patrick
Henry that having sworn to support the constitution he was voting
for every measure of energy and consolidation; that government
once assumed over so extensive a domain must fall into anarchy or be
supported with, vigor.—Henry's Henry, III., 418. He died June 1,
1790.
TO EDMUND RANDOLPH.
Your favor of the 10th came to hand yesterday. I feel much
anxiety for the situation in which you found Mrs. Randolph; but it is
somewhat alleviated by the hopes which you seem to indulge.
The language of Richmond on the proposed discrimination does not
surprise me. It is the natural language of the towns, and decides
nothing. Censure I well knew would flow from those sources. Should
it also flow from other sources, I shall not be the less convinced of the
right of the measure, or the less satisfied with myself for having proposed
it. The conduct of the Gentlemen in Amherst & Culpeper
proves only that their personal animosity is unabated. Here it is a
a charge agst me that I sacrificed the federal to anti federal Sentiments.
I am at a loss to divine the use that C [a] b [e] 11 and S-t [even] can
make of the circumstance.
The debates occasioned by the Quakers have not yet expired.[6]
The stile of them has been as shamefully indecent as the matter was
evidently misjudged. The true policy of the Southn. members was to
have let the affair proceed with as little noise as possible, and to have
made use of the occasion to obtain along with an assertion of the
powers of Congs. a recognition of the restraints imposed by the Constitution.
The State debts have been suspended by the preceding business more
than a Week. They lose ground daily, & the assumption will I think
ultimately be defeated. Besides a host of objections agst the propriety
of the measure in its present form, its practicability becomes
less & less evident. The case of the paper money in Georgia S. C., N.
C., &c to R. Is1d., is a most serious difficulty. It is a part of the debts
of those States, and comes in part within the principle of the assumption.
A packet arrived a few days ago but threw little light on the affairs
of Europe. Those of France do not recede but their advance does not
keep pace with the wishes of liberty. Remember me to Mr. M—&
his land lady
We expect him today or tomorrow. I am this instant told he is
come.—Mad. MSS.
TO EDMUND PENDLETON.
You will see by the papers herewith covered that the proposed assumption
of the State debts continues to employ the deliberations of
the House of Reps. The question seems now to be near its decision,
and unfortunately, tho' so momentous a one, is likely to turn on a very
small majority, possibly on a single vote. The measure is not only
liable to many objections of a general cast, but in its present form is
particularly unfriendly to the interests of Virginia. In this light it is
viewed by all her representatives except Col: Bland.
The American Revolution with its foreign and future consequences,
is a subject of such magnitude that every circumstance connected with
it, more especially every one leading to it, is already and will be more
and more a matter of investigation. In this view I consider the
proceedings in Virginia during the crisis of the Stamp-Act as worthy
of particular remembrance, and a communication of them as a sort of
debt due from her cotemporary citizens to their successors. As I
know of no memory on which my curiosity could draw for more correct
or more judicious information, you must forgive this resort to yours.
Were I to consult nothing but my curiosity, my enquiries would not
be very limited. But as I could not indulge that motive fully, without
abusing the right I have assumed, my request goes no farther than
that you will, as leisure & recollection may permit, briefly note on
paper—by whom & how the subject commenced in the Assembly,
where the resolutions proposed by Mr. Henry really originated; what
as the sum of the arguments for and against them, and who were the
principal speakers on each side; with any little anecdotes throwing
light on the transaction, on the characters concerned in it, or on the
temper of the Colony at the time.[7]
Begging pardon again for the tax I am laying on your benevolence,
I remain Dear Sir
May 2, 1790, Madison wrote to Pendleton acknowledging the
receipt of the desired information. He had asked it supposing Pendleton
was present at the time, which, he added, "I find was not the
case," He sent Pendleton's letter to William Wirt when Wirt was
preparing his Life of Patrick Henry, but Wirt never returned it. In
the Life of Henry, p. 74 et seq. it appears that Pendleton was present
when Henry's resolutions were debated and spoke against them.
TO HENRY LEE.
Your favor of the 4th ult. by Col. Lee was received from his hands
on Sunday last. I have since recd. that of the 3d Instant. The
antecedent one from Alexandria, though long on the way, was recd.
some time before. In all these, I discover strong marks of the dissatisfaction
with which you behold our public prospects. Though
in several respects they do not comport with my wishes, yet I cannot
feel all the despondency which you seem to give way to. I do not
mean that I entertain much hope of the Potomac; that seems pretty
much out of sight; but that other measures in view, however improper,
will be less fatal than you imagine.[8]
The plan of discrimination has met with the reception in Virginia
on which I calculated. The towns would for obvious reasons disrelish
it, and for a time they always set public opinion. The country in this
region of America, in general, if I am not misinformed, has not been
in unison with the cities, nor has any of the latter except this, been
unanimous against the measure. Here the sentiment was in its full
vigor, and produced every exertion that could influence the result.
I think with you that the Report of the Secretary of the Treasury
is faulty in many respects; it departs particularly from that simplicity
which ought to be preserved in finance, more than anything else. The
novelty and difficulty of the Task he had to execute form no small
apology for his errors, and I am in hopes that in some instances they
will be diminished, if not remedied.
The proposed assumption of the State debts has undergone repeated
discussions, and contradictory decisions. The last vote was taken
yesterday in a Committee of the whole and passed in the negative 31
vs 29. The minority do not abandon however their object, and tis
impossible to foretell the final destiny of the measure. It has some
good aspects, and under some modifications would be favorable to the
pecuniary interests of Virginia, and not inconsistent with the general
principle of justice. In any attainable form it would have neither of
these recommendations, and is moreover liable to strong objections of
a general nature. It would certainly be wrong to force an affirmative
decision on so important and controvertible a point by a bare majority,
yet I have little hope of forbearance from that scruple. Mass. & S.
Carolina with their allies of Connecticut & N. York are too zealous to
be arrested in their project, unless by the force of an adverse majority.
I have recd. your reflections on the subject of a public debt with
pleasure; in general they are in my opinion just and important.
Perhaps it is not possible to shun some of the evils you point out,
without abandoning too much the re-establishment of public credit.
But as far as this object will permit I go on the principle that a Public
Debt is a Public curse, and in a Rep Govt a greater than in any other.
I have mentioned Mr Lee[9]
to Mr Jefferson who tells me that he
found every place preoccupied, and that he has not thought proper to
make changes where no special reasons existed; various applications
have been made previous to that in behalf of your friend, several had
passed through my hands, some of them from Virginia.
I never heard of the report you mention of the Vice Presdt. It is
but Justice to say that I cannot believe it to have originated in fact.
I lament with you the inability which impedes arrangements at the
Great Falls, which would be of benefit in a Public as well as private
view. The prospect of aid in this quarter does not strike me as it
seems to do you. Money is destined to other projects at this juncture.
Besides I am on no peculiar footing, that could favor an experiment,
and could never make it less auspiciously than at present.
It gives me much concern that it is not more in my power to forward
our object.
Present me most respectfully to Mrs Lee & believe me
Lee wrote April 3, 1790, from Berry Hill that all of Patrick Henry's
dark predictions were coming, true—that he dreaded a dissolution of
the union, but had rather submit to it than to "the rule of a fixed
insolent northern majority." Change of the seat of government to
the territorial centre, direct taxation, and the abolition of "gambling
systems of finance" might effect a change of sentiment.—Mad. MSS.
TO JAMES MONROE.
An answer to your favor of the 5th. has been delayed by my hourly
expectation of hearing from Taylor. A few days ago he came to Town
and I have had an interview and settlement with him. The balance
with the interest at 7 per Ct. was 864 dollars. He has not however
executed the conveyance for want of some chart which he could not
get here, but has entered into bond to do so by August, with good
security. As far as I can learn our bargain is a good one. Land in
the vicinity has sold in small parcells at more than 20/. I am told.
The present moment however it is said is not favorable to the market.
By waiting I think it probable it may be sold to your profit or If you
continue to be anxious to get rid of it immediately, I have no objection
to taking the whole on myself. Before you decide I would recommend
that you consult by letter some of your friends here who can
judge better than I can do, and who have more leisure & opportunity
for making the requisite enquiry into the prospect. Should you chuse
to make me the sole proprietor, it will be most convenient that the
deed be executed from Taylor to me. In that event also, I beg you
to let me know the state in which the accts. between us was left, by
your former advances for me, and my settlemts. for your furniture &c.[10]
My papers on this subject are either not here or so concealed among
others that I cannot find them.
The House of Representatives are still at the threshold of the
Revenue business. The Assumption of the State debts is the great
obstacle. A few days ago it was reconsidered & rejected by 31 agst. 29.
The measure is not however abandoned. It will be tried in every
possible shape by the zeal of its patrons. The Eastern members talk a
strange language on the subject. They avow, some of them at least,
a determination to oppose all provision for the public debt which does
not include this, and intimate danger to the Union from a refusal to
Assume. We shall risk their prophetic menaces if we should continue
to have a majority.—Mad. MSS.
TO JAMES MADISON
I wrote some days ago to my brother Ambrose since which little has
taken place worth adding. The inclosed newspapers contain a sketch
of what has been done in the House of Reps.
I mentioned to my brother that I thought it better to ship or postpone
the sale of Tobo. than to sell at the present price in the Country.
I am more & more convinced that this will be prudent. The price has
risen considerably in Europe, and from causes that will be more likely
to carry it still higher than let it fall lower. As long indeed as grain
keeps up which the state of Europe makes it probable will be for some
time, the culture of that article in America, particularly Virginia will
divert labor from others, and from Tobo. among the rest. This alone
will prevent a low price, by circumscribing the quantity raised.
The influenza or something like it but less severe has revisited this
quarter of the Union. I have had an attack which has kept me at
home for several days. I am now pretty well over it, and shall resume
my seat in the House tomorrow, or at least shall be able to do
it. If no business of consequence should press, perhaps I may indulge
myself with two or three holidays for the sake of exercise & recreation.
Remind my brother A. to send me a copy of the weather &c. from
your diary for the months of Feby. March & April, including the heat
& cold noted by the Thermometer. When May is over he can send
me that also.
Tell Mr. G. Eve that I have heard of a sett of Gill's Commentory.
The Price of the Old Testament is £8. of the new £9. Pensylva. curry.
My brother Ambr. last letter gave me great pleasure by acquainting me
that my mothers health was increasing. I hope it continues to do so.
—Mad. MSS.
TO JAMES MONROE.
Your favor of the 19th. of May has been duly received. The information
relating to your little daughter has been communicated as you
desired. I hope she is by this time entirely recovered. Your friends
in Broadway were well two evenings ago.
I have paid the money to Taylor, and hope you will take the time
you intimate for replacing my advances on your account.
The assumption has been revived and is still depending. I do not
believe it will take place, but the event may possibly be governed by
Circumstances not at present fully in view. The funding bill for the
proper debt of the U. S. is engrossed for the last reading. It conforms
in substance to the plan of the Secretary of the Treasy. You will have
seen by late papers that an experiment for navigation and commercial
purposes has been introduced. It has powerful friends, and from the
present aspect of the H. of Reps. will suceed there by a great majority.
In the Senate its success is not improbable if I am rightly informed.
you will see by the inclosed paper that a removal from this place has
been voted by a large majority of our House. The other is pretty
nearly balanced. The Senators of the 3 Southern States are disposed
to couple the permanent with the temporary question. If they do I
think it will end in either an abortion of both or in a decision of the
former in favour of the Delaware, I have good reason to believe
that there is no serious purpose in the Northern States to prefer the
Potowmac, and that if supplied with a pretext for a very hasty decision,
they will indulge their secret wishes for a permanent establishment
on the Delaware. As R. I. is again in the Union & will probably
be in the Senate in a day or two, The Potowmac has the less to hope
& the more to fear from this quarter. Our friend Col: Bland was a
victim this morning to the influenza united with the effects & remains
of previous indisposition. His mind was not right for several days
before he died. The President has been at the point of death but is
recovered. Mr. Jefferson has had a tedious spell of the head-ache.
It has not latterly been very severe, but is still not absolutely removed.
My best respects to Mrs Monroe. With sincere regard I am Dear Sir.
—Mad. MSS.
TO JAMES MADISON.
My last was to my brother A. and acknowledged the receipt of the
Diary. I inclose one for the month of April which you can compare
with your own for the same month. I enclose also a few grains of
upland rice, brought from Timor by Capt. Bligh lately distinguished
by an adventure which you must have seen in the newspapers. He
was returning from a voyage of discovery in the South seas, and turned
out of his ship with a few others by a mutinous crew in a long boat
which continued more than 40 days at sea.[11]
A little rice of which the
enclosed is a part was all that he saved out of a fine collection. It will
be best to give the grains their first vegetation in a flower pot of rich
earth, and then shift the contents of the pot into the ground so as not
to disturb the roots. A few of the grains may be tried at once in the
garden in a strong soil.
You will see by the inclosed newspapers that the seat of Govt. has
been again on the carpet. After a variety of questions which the
state of the votes as you will at once remark do not truly explain, a
very unexpected result has happened in favor of Baltimore. It is
possible that a like fortuitous one may take place in the Senate, but it
does not appear probable. It is much to be apprehended that the final
event will not square with the pretensions of the Potowmac, tho' in
the chances to which this question is liable, it may possibly turn out
otherwise.—I am anxious to hear the progress of my brothers health,
and that of my sister Nelly. I hope yours continues good. Mine has
reestablished for some time.—Mad. MSS.
TO JAMES MONROE.[12]
Dear Sir,—You will find in the inclosed papers some account of the
proceedings on the question relating to the seat of Government. The
Senate have hung up the vote for Baltimore, which, as you may suppose,
could not have been seriously meant by many who joined in it.
It is not improbable that the permanent seat may be coupled with the
"temporary one. The Potowmac stands a bad chance, and yet it is not
impossible that in the vicissitudes of the business it may turn up in
some form or other.
The assumption still hangs over us. The negative of the measure
has benumbed the whole revenue business. I suspect that it will yet
be unavoidable to admit the evil in some qualified shape. The funding
tall is before the Senate, who are making very free with the plan
of the Secretary. A committee of that body have reported that the
alternatives be struck out, the interest reduced absolutely to 4 per
cent., and, as I am informed, the indents be not included in the provision
for the principal.
TO EDMUND PENDLETON.
Dear Sir,—The pressure of business as the session approaches its
term, the earlier hour at which the House of Representatives has for
some time met, and the necessity of devoting a part of the interval to
exercise, after so long a confinement, have obliged me to deny myself
the pleasure of communicating regularly with my friends. I regret
much that this violation of my wishes has unavoidably extended itself
to the correspondences on which I set the greatest value, and which,
I need not add, include yours. The regret is the greater, as I fear it
will not be in my power to atone for past omissions by more punctuality
during the residue of the session. In your goodness alone I must
consequently look for my title to indulgence.
The funding and Revenue systems are reduced by the discord of
opinions into a very critical state. Out of this extremity, however,
some effective provision must, I think, still emerge. The affair of the
State debts has been the great source of delay and embarrassment,
and, from the zeal and perseverance of its patrons, threatens a very
unhappy issue to the session, unless some scheme of accommodation
should be devised. The business of the seat of Government is become
a labyrinth, for which the votes printed furnish no clue, and which it
is impossible in a letter to explain to you. We are endeavoring to
keep the pretensions of the Potowmac in view, and to give to all the
circumstances that occur a turn favorable to it. If any arrangement
should be made that will answer our wishes, it will be the effect of
a coincidence of causes as fortuitous as it will be propitious. You
will see by the papers inclosed that Great Britain is itching for war.
I do not see how one can be avoided, unless Spain should be frightened
into concessions. The consequences of such an event must have an
important relation to the affairs of the United States. I had not the
pleasure of seeing Col. Hoomes during his momentary stay in New
York, but had that of hearing that he gave a very favorable account
of your health.
JULY 6—LOCATION OF THE CAPITAL.
Mr. Madison.—In order to decide this question rightly, we
ought to compare the advantages and disadvantages of the
two places as they relate to the good of the United States.
with respect to Baltimore, to point out any substantial advantage
that is not common to the Potomac; and I defy him
to disprove that there are not several important advantages
The committee have had ample information with
respect to the Northern and Southern positions of the two
pretensions of Baltimore, the Potomac is at least equally
favored in that respect. In regard to centrality of situation,
security from invasion, I aver the Potomac has the advantage
also. With relation to the Western country, there is not a
Baltimore, why not an equal distance southwest to the
Potomac? Those who are acquainted with the country on
the Potomac, and that in the neighborhood of Baltimore, do
true, that Baltimore has respectable resources; her rapid
growth is a clear proof of it; but look at the resources of the
Potomac, the great range of rich country that borders on
time, produce a commercial town. Sir, a period might be
named, not exceeding ten years, within which the town of
Baltimore obtained the greater part of its increase and
effects on the Potomac, because the same causes exist; and
when, super-added to this, the residence of Government shall
accommodation that can be desired.
It is said, that before the ten years expire, a repeal of the
But what more can we do than pass a law for the purpose?
It is not in our power to guard against a repeal. Our acts are
not like those of the Medes and Persians, unalterable. A repeal
is a thing against which no provision can be made. If
that is an objection, it holds good against any law that can be
passed. If those States that may have a superiority in Congress
at a future day will pay no respect to the acts of their
predecessors, or to the public good, there is no power to
compel them.
But I flatter myself that some respect will be paid to the
As to centrality, the best evidence we have at this time in
favor of the Potomac is the different travelling of the members;
and this, sir, proves incontestably that the proposed
place on the Potomac is near the centre. If any arguments
could be brought against it, it is its being too far to the Northward,
for the mileage south of the Potomac is twelve thousand
seven hundred and eighty-two miles, to the north of it
twelve thousand four hundred and twenty-two miles. If to
this Rhode Island be added, it will not be more than equal.
If the bill once passes, I am not under any apprehensions of a
against which we cannot guard. Sir, we should calculate on
accepting the bill as it now stands; we ought not to risk it
by making any amendment. We have it now in our power
to procure a Southern position. The opportunity may not
again speedily present itself. We know the various and
jealous interests that exist on this subject. We should hazard
nothing. If the Potomac is struck out, are you sure of getting
Baltimore? May no other place be proposed? Instead of
Baltimore, is it not probable we may have Susquehanna inserted,
perhaps the Delaware? Make any amendment, sir,
and the bill will go back to the Senate. Are we sure that it
will come back into our possession again? By amending, we
give up a certainty for an uncertainty. In my opinion, we
shall act wisely, if we accept the bill as it now stands, and I
beg leave to press it on gentlemen not to consent to any alteration,
lest it be wholly defeated and the prospect of obtaining
a Southern position vanish for ever.[3]
TO JAMES MONROE.
Dear Sir,—You will find by one of the Gazettes herewith sent, that
the bill fixing the permanent seat of Government on the Potowmac,
and the temporary at Philadelphia, has got through the Senate. It
passed by a single voice only, Izzard and Few having both voted
against it. Its passage through the House of Representatives is probable,
but attended with great difficulties. If the Potowmac succeeds,
even an these terms, it will have resulted from a fortuitous coincidence
of circumstances which might never happen again.[4]
The provision for the public debt has been suspended for some time
in the Senate by the question relating to the seat of Government. It
is now resumed in that House, and it is to be hoped will soon be
brought to an issue. The assumption sleeps, but I am persuaded will
be awakened on the first dawn of a favorable opportunity. It seems,
indeed, as if the friends of the measure were determined to risk everything
than suffer that finally to fail.
We hear nothing further of the controversy between England and
Spain.
TO JAMES MADISON.
I have recd your's of the 9th. inclosing a letter for Mr. Chew which I
shall forward as you desire.
As far as I have had an opportunity of inquiring I do not find that
Coffee can be got here on terms that will make it worth while to prefer
it to what can be got in Virginia. The price of brown sugar I have
not yet learnt but will attend to your request on that subject.
The funding bill has at length passed the two Houses with a qualified
assumption of the state debts. 2/3 of the federal debt are to bear an
immediate interest of 6 per ct. and the remaining 1/3 a like interest to
commence in 1800, but in the mean time to be receivable for land.
The indents & arrears of interest are funded at 3 per Ct. of the state
debts 2/3 are funded at 6 per ct. & at 3 per Ct. The assumption was carried
by a small majority in both Houses. Many who voted for it did
so on a supposition that it was a lesser evil than to risk the effect of a
rejection on the states which insisted on the measure. I could not bring
myself to concur with them, but am sensible that there was serious danger
of a very unfavorable issue to the Session from a contrary decision,
and consider it as now incumbent on us all to make the best of what is
done. The truth is that in a pecuniary light, the assumption is no
longer of much consequence to Virginia, the sum allotted to her being
about her proportion of the whole, & rather exceeding her present
debt. She will consequently pay no more to the general Treasury
than she now pays to the State Treasy. and perhaps in a mode which
will be less disagreeable to the people, tho not more favorable to their
true interests.
The Ways & means are now under consideration. The impost will
be made equal to the federal debt. The provision for the State debts
will be put off till the next session. It will be likely to consist chiefly
of duties on rum distilled in the U.S. and on a few imported articles
that will best bear a further augmentation.
We expect that an adjournment will take place in about a week. I
shall set out for Virginia as soon thereafter as I can pack up my books
papers &c. which will detain me here some days. Mr. Jefferson wishes
me to wait for his setting out and as his company will be particularly
grateful & also convenient I am not sure that I shall resist the invitation,
if he finds that he can be ready for the Journey within a reasonable
time. I shd. not hesitate, if I did not wish to be in Orange by the
election, tho' as an attendance cannot be given at more than one of
the 8 Counties, it does not seem worth while to sacrifice much, to that
consideration.—Mad. MSS.
TO JAMES MADISON.
Cong. not having closed their Session till the day before yesterday,
and the weather being extremely hot, I have thought it necessary in
order to avoid the danger of a bilious attack to which I am become
very subject, to wait here a few weeks which will render the journey
more safe, and afford me moreover the pleasure of Mr. Jeffersons company
quite to Orange. This resolution puts it out of my power to be
within the district by the time of the election, and makes it proper
that I should intimate the cause of it to a friend in each County. The
inclosed are part of the letters written for that purpose.[13]
I fear the
time may be short for conveying them, but hope opportunities may be
found. The letter which is not directed is meant for each one of the
gentlemen in Louisa, as you and my brother A. may think most proper
Should the High Sheriff be not improper, perhaps it would be as well
for you to address it to him. Perhaps also my brother Ambrose may
find it convenient to be at the Election in Louisa. The Letter for Col:
Pendleton will be best in the hands of my brother William who I presume
will attend in Culpeper. Two of the letters being unsealed I
refer to their contents, remaining your afft. son.
N. B. I have recd. the letter for Mr. Jos. Chew &c.—Mad. MSS.
The Session of Congs. was called yesterday. The list of acts inclosed
will give you a general idea of what has been done. The subjects
which conduced most to the length of the Session are the assumption
of the State debts, and the Seat of Government. The latter has been
decided in a manner more favorable to Virginia than was hoped.
The former will be less acceptable to that State. It has however been
purged of some of its objections and particularly of its gross injustice
to Virginia, which in a pecuniary view is little affected one way or the
other.
The Continental debt, as funded, is provided for by the impost
alone and a surplus of about a million of dollars, which will have
accumulated prior to the first payment of interest, is allotted to the
purpose of reducing, by buying up, the principal. The provision for
the State debts assumed is to be the work of the next Session in December.
It will be made, as far as can be inferred from the ideas now
prevalent, under the influences of a strong zeal to avoid direct taxes.
The Eastern States being even more averse to that mode of revenue
than the Southern, and in my judgment, with much more reason.
It was my purpose to have been within the district before the Election;
but the length of the Session has disappointed me. By pushing
directly on I might indeed now affect it. But it would be at the risk
of my health, which is not at present very firm, and would be particularly
exposed on a long & rapid journey at this season of the
year. I shall consequently remain in this place for a few weeks presuming
that the circumstance of my being present or absent will weigh
little with my constituents in deciding whether they will again confide
their interests to my representation—
Your mo: obedt. hble St.
find its way to the press.
- A. Rose
- G. Paine
- T. Underwood
- G. Thomson
- W. C. Nicholas
- G. Gilmer
of Louisa - Mann Page Esq.
- Js. Pendleton Esq.—Mad. MSS.
TO JAMES MADISON.
We arrived here yesterday was a week without any occurrence on
the road worth mentioning. The President arrived yesterday & the
members are coming in for Congress. I have made inquiry with regard
to the articles you want, and send you the inclosed paper which
will give you information not only with respect to them, but all others
in the market here. The high price of sugar makes it advisable I
think not to purchase at present. Coffee seems low enough but I do
not see any probability of a rise that will be more than equivalent to
the loss of the money vested in an article stored away. I shall however
await your instructions on this point as well as others; or if I should
meet with a bargain on account either of cheapness or quality, perhaps
embrace it for you.
The price of securities at which Majr. Moore's certificates would have
been sold is 12/6 in the pound, at which of course you are to settle
with him. I have forwarded his letter to his son John, with 3 half
Jos. & notice of the fund in my hands for him. Of this you will inform
my Uncle.
I hope this will find all well and my bro'r Ambrose restored. Tell
him I shall expect to hear often from him as well as yourself. I hope
you have not forgotten to pay Majr. Lee, and that Robin & the will
have given Sawney the aids necessary for the jobb I left unfinished.
With my love to my mother & regards for the family I remain your
afft. son.—Mad. MSS
TO EDMUND PENDLETON.
Previous to my leaving N. Y., I recd. a letter from you which was
not then answered, because the subject of it required more consideration
than could then be spared and because an answer was not prompted
by anything agitated or proposed on the subject in Congress. I am
afraid that notwithstanding the interval which has passed I am still
not sufficiently prepared to do justice to your queries, some of which
are of a delicate, and all of which are of an important nature. I am
however the less concerned on this account, as I am sure that your
own reflections will have embraced every idea, which mine, if ever so
mature, could have suggested.
Your first quere is, are the words of the Treaty "there shall be no
legal impediment to the bona fide recovery of debts on either side,"
a law of repeal, or a covenant that a law of repeal shall be passed?
As Treaties are declared to be the supreme law of the land, I should
suppose that the words of the treaty are to be taken for the words of
the law, unless the stipulation be expressly or necessarily executory,
which does not in this instance appear to be the case.
"Was not the contrary the sense of the Congress who made the
Treaty, when they called on the States to repeal the several laws containing
such impediments?" As well as I recollect, the Act of Congress
on that occasion supposed the impediments to be repealed by the
Treaty, and recommended a repeal by the States, merely as declaratory
and in order to obviate doubts and discussions. Perhaps too, on a
supposition that a legal repeal might have been necessary previous to
the new Constitution, it may be rendered unnecessary by the terms of
this instrument above quoted, which seem to give a legal force to the
Treaty.
"Admitting the treaty to be a law of repeal, what is the extent of
it? does it repeal all acts of limitation, & such as regulate the modes
of proving debts?" This question probably involves several very
nice points, and requires a more critical knowledge of the state of the
American laws, the course of legal proceedings, and the circumstances
of the British debts, than I possess. Under this disadvantage, I am
afraid to say more than that the probable intention of the parties, and
the expression "bona fide recovery of debts," seem to plead for a
liberal & even favorable interpretation of the article. Unless there be
very strong and clear objections, such an interpretation would seem
to require that the debts should be viewed as in the State in which the
original obstacles to their recovery found them, so far at least as the
nature of the case will permit.
"What is meant by the Supreme law as applied to treaties? is it
like those of the Medes & Persians unalterable? or may not the contracting
powers annul it by consent? or a breach on one side discharge
the other from an obligation to perform its part?" Treaties as I
understand the Constitution are made Supreme over the Constitutions
and laws of the particular States, and, like a subsequent law of the
U. S., over pre-existing laws of the U. S, provided however that the
Treaty be within the prerogative of making Treaties, which no doubt
has certain limits.
That the contracting powers can annul the Treaty, cannot I presume,
be questioned, the same authority precisely being exercised in
annulling as in making a Treaty.
That a breach on one side (even of a single article, each being considered
as a condition of every other article) discharges the other, is as
little questionable; but with this reservation, that the other side is at
liberty to take advantage or not of the breach, as dissolving the Treaty.
Hence I infer that the Treaty with G. B., which has not been annulled
by mutual consent, must be regarded as in full force, by all on whom
its execution in the U. S. depends, until it shall be declared by the
party to whom a right has accrued by the breach of the other party to
declare, that advantage is taken of the breach, & the Treaty is annulled
accordingly. In case it should be advisable to take advantage of the
adverse breach, a question may perhaps be started, whether the power
vested by the Constitution with respect to Treaties in the President &
Senate, makes them the competent Judges, or whether, as the Treaty
is a law the whole Legislature are to judge of its annulment, or whether
in case the President & Senate be competent in ordinary Treaties, the
Legislative authority be requisite to annul a Treaty of peace, as being
equivalent to a Declaration of War, to which that authority alone, by
our Constitution, is competent.
Mr. White tells me he has sent you a copy of Col: Hamilton's plan
of a Bank, I do not therefore inclose one, I augur that you will not
be in love with some of its features. Mr. Randolph's Report on the
Judiciary is not yet printed. I know that a copy is allotted for you.
The report of the ways means from the Treasury Dept. for the as
sumed debt, has been, in the Newspapers & has I presume found its
way to you thro' that channel. There are objections of different sorts
to the proposed mode of revenue. But as direct taxes wd. be still more
generally obnoxious, and as imports are already loaded as far as they
will bear, an excise is the only resource, and of all articles, distilled
spirits are least objectionable. Indeed the duty imposed on imported
rum, forces, a proportional duty on Country rum, and from the latter
a duty on other spirits distilled at home results of course. There is of
consequent scarce an option.
The Militia bill and a plan for disposing of the Public lands have
been under consideration for some time, and have made some progress;
but are not in a state as yet from which their final shape can be decided,
The Senate have before them the Bank, the report of the Secy. of
State on weights & measures, and the case of Kentucky. This last
subject has experienced no other difficulties than what proceeded from
some little scruples concerning punctilios in the transition from the
old to the new station of the District. I understand from Col: Monroe,
that the Senate are really disposed to forward the object. Vermont
will probably soon follow, and may even be a member of the Union,
before the period to which the law of Virginia postpones the actual
admission of Kentucky.
The Gazette of last evening contains the following paragraph under
the Philada head—"By an Express which arrived this afternoon at
the Post office from Lewistown, near the Capes of Delaware, we have
recd. letters from London down to the 4th of November, The following
letter will convey important intelligence to the American Public:
Copy of a letter recd by the Lord Mayor of London front the Duke of Leeds.
I have the honour to acquaint your Lordship that the Messenger
Dressin arrived here this morning with despatches from Mr. Fitzherbert,
Ambassador at the Court of Madrid, dated Sunday, 24 Octobr.
containing an account that a convention for terminating the differences
which had arisen with that Court had been agreed upon between
his Excellency on the part of his Majesty, and the Ct. de Florida Blanca,
on the part of the Catholic King; and that the Convention was to be
signed and exchanged by those Ministers the 27 of the same month.
London, 4 Novr. (Signed) Leeds
From this extract it may be concluded, unless there be a forgery
not to be suspected, that the question which has been so long depending
between G. B. & Spain has issued in peace.
The date of my letter reminds me of the compliments which belong
to the Season. I offer them with the sincerest wish that they may
yet often be repeated to you, and that the state of health in which this
will find you may promise that satisfaction to all your friends, among
whom no one will enjoy it in a higher degree than,
| The writings of James Madison, | |