University of Virginia Library

Wednesday June 13.[75] in Committee of the
whole

Resol: 9 being resumed

The latter parts of the clause relating to the jurisdiction
of the Natl. tribunals, was struck out nem.
con in order to leave full room for their organization.

Mr. Randolph & Mr. Madison, then moved the following
resolution respecting a National Judiciary,

viz "that the jurisdiction of the National Judiciary
shall extend to cases, which respect the collection
of the national revenue, impeachments of any
national officers, and questions which involve the
national peace and harmony" which was agreed to.

Mr. Pinkney & Mr. Sherman moved to insert after
the words "one supreme tribunal" the words "the
Judges of which to be appointed by the National
Legislature."

Mr. Madison, objected to an appt.. by the whole
Legislature. Many of them were incompetent Judges
of the requisite qualifications. They were too much
influenced by their partialities. The candidate
who was present, who had displayed a talent for
business in the legislative field, who had perhaps
assisted ignorant members in business of their own,

or of their Constituents, or used other winning means,
would without any of the essential qualifications for
an expositor of the laws prevail over a competitor
not having these recommendations, but possessed of
every necessary accomplishment. He proposed that
the appointment should be made by the Senate,
which as a less numerous & more select body, would
be more competent judges, and which was sufficiently
numerous to justify such a confidence in them.

Mr. Sharman & Mr. Pinkney withdrew their
motion, and the appt. by the Senate was agd. to nem.
con.

Mr. Gerry moved to restrain the Senatorial branch
from originating money bills. The other branch was
more immediately the representatives of the people,
and it was a maxim that the people ought to hold
the Purse-strings. If the Senate should be allowed
to originate such bills, they wd. repeat the experiment,
till chance should furnish a sett of representatives
in the other branch who will fall into their
snares.

Mr. Butler saw no reason for such a discrimination.
We were always following the British Constitution
when the reason of it did not apply. There
was no analogy between the H. of Lords and the
body proposed to be established. If the Senate
should be degraded by any such discriminations, the
best men would be apt to decline serving in it in
favor of the other branch. And it will lead the
latter into the practice of tacking other clauses to
money bills.

Mr. Madison observed that the Comentators on
the Brit: Const: had not yet agreed on the reason of
the restriction on the H. of L. in money bills. Certain
it was there could be no similar reason in the
case before us. The Senate would be the representatives
of the people as well as the 1st. branch. If
they sd. have any dangerous influence over it, they
would easily prevail on some member of the latter
to originate the bill they wished to be passed. As
the Senate would be generally a more capable sett
of men, it wd. be wrong to disable them from any preparation
of the business, especially of that which was
most important, and in our republics, worse prepared
than any other. The Gentleman in pursuance of
his principle ought to carry the restraint to the
amendment, as well as the originating of money
bills, since, an addition of a given sum wd. be equivalent
to a distinct proposition of it.

Mr. King differed from Mr. Gerry, and concurred
in the objections to the proposition.

Mr. Read favored the proposition, but would not
extend the restraint to the case of amendments.

Mr. Pinkney thinks the question premature. If
the Senate shd. be formed on the same proportional
representation as it stands at present, they sd. have
equal power, otherwise if a different principle sd.
be introduced.

Mr. Sherman. As both branches must concur,
there can be no danger whichever way the Senate
be formed. We establish two branches in order to
get more wisdom, which is particularly needed in

the finance business—The Senate bear their share
of the taxes, and are also the representatives of the
people. What a man does by another, he does by
himself is a maxim. In Cont. both branches can
originate in all cases, and it has been found safe &
convenient. Whatever might have been the reason
of the rule as to The H. of Lords, it is clear that no
good arises from it now even there.

Genl. Pinkney. This distinction prevails in S.
C. and has been a source of pernicious disputes
between ye. 2 branches. The Constitution is now
evaded, by informal schedules of amendments handed
from ye. Senate to the other House.

Mr. Williamson wishes for a question chiefly to
prevent re-discussion. The restriction will have
one advantage, it will oblige some member in the
lower branch to move, & people can then mark him.

On the question for excepting money bills, as
propd. by Mr. Gerry, Mass. no. Cont. no. N. Y.
ay. N. J. no. Del. ay. Md. no. Va. ay. N. C. no.
S. C. no. Geo. no.[76]

Committee rose & Mr. Ghorum made report,
which was postponed till tomorrow, to give an opportunity
for other plans to be proposed, the report
was in the words following:

Report of the Committee of Whole on Mr. Randolph's
propositions.

1.

• Resd. that it is the opinion of this Committee
  

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  that a National Governmt. ought to be established,
  consisting of a supreme Legislative, Executive &
  Judiciary.

2.

• Resold. that the National Legislature ought to
  consist of two branches.

3.

• Resd. that the members of the first branch of
  the National Legislature ought to be elected by the
  people of the several States for the term of three
  years, to receive fixed Stipends by which they may
  be compensated for the devotion of their time to
  public service, to be paid out of the National Treasury:
  to be ineligible to any office established by a
  particular State, or under the authority of the U.
  States, (except those peculiarly belonging to the
  functions of the first branch), during the term of
  service, and under the national Government for the
  Space of one year after its expiration.

4.

• Resd. that the members of the second branch
  of the Natl. Legislature ought to be chosen by the
  individual Legislatures, to be of the age of 30 years
  at least, to hold their offices for a term sufficient to
  ensure their independency, namely, seven years, to
  receive fixed stipends by which they may be compensated
  for the devotion of their time to public service
  to be paid out of the National Treasury; to be
  ineligible to any office established by a particular
  State, or under the authority of the U. States, (except
  those peculiarly belonging to the functions of
  the second branch) during the term of service, and
  under the Natl. Govt. for the space of one year after
  its expiration.

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5.

• Resd. that each branch ought to possess the
  right of originating Acts

6.

• Resd. that the Natl. Legislature ought to be
  empowered to enjoy the Legislative rights vested in
  Congs. by the Confederation, and moreover to legislate
  in all cases to which the separate States are incompetent;
  or in which the harmony of the U. S.
  may be interrupted by the exercise of individual
  legislation; to negative all laws passed by the
  several States contravening in the opinion of the
  National Legislature the articles of Union, or any
  treaties subsisting under the authority of the
  Union.

7.

• Resd. that the rights of suffrage in the 1st. branch
  of the National Legislature, ought not to be according
  to the rule established in the articles of confederation
  but according to some equitable ratio of
  representation, namely, in proportion to the whole
  number of white & other free citizens & inhabitants,
  of every age sex and condition, including those
  bound to servitude for a term of years, & three fifths
  of all other persons, not comprehended in the foregoing
  description, except Indians not paying taxes
  in each State.

8.

• Resolved that the right of suffrage in the 2d.
  branch of the National Legislature ought to be according
  to the rule established for the first.

9.

• Resolved that a National Executive be instituted
  to consist of a single person, to be chosen by
  the Natl. Legislature for the term of seven years,
  with power to carry into execution the national laws,
  

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  to appoint to offices in cases not otherwise provided
  for—to be ineligible a second time, & to be removeable
  on impeachment and conviction of malpractices or
  neglect of duty—to receive a fixed stipend by which
  he may be compensated for the devotion of his time
  to public service to be paid out of the national
  Treasury.

10.

• Resold. that the Natl. Executive shall have a
  right to negative any Legislative Act, which shall
  not be afterwards passed unless by two thirds of
  each branch of the National Legislature.

11.

• Resold. that a Natl. Judiciary be established,
  to consist of one supreme tribunal, the Judges of
  which to be appointed by the 2d. branch of the Natl.
  Legislature, to hold their offices during good behaviour,
  & to receive punctually at stated times a fixed
  compensation for their services, in which no increase
  or diminution shall be made, so as to affect the persons
  actually in office at the time of such increase or
  diminution.

12.

• Resold. that the Natl. Legislature be empowered
  to appoint inferior Tribunals.

13.

• Resd. that the jurisdiction of the Natl. Judiciary
  shall extend to all cases which respect the collection
  of the Natl. revenue, impeachments of any
  Natl. Officers, and questions which involve the national
  peace & harmony.

14.

• Resd. that provision ought to be made for the
  admission of States lawfully arising within the limits
  of the U. States, whether from a voluntary junction
  of Government & territory or otherwise, with the
  

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  consent of a number of voices in the Natl. Legislature
  less than the whole,

15.

• Resd. that provision ought to be made for the
  continuance of Congress and their authorities and
  privileges untill a given day after the reform of the
  articles of Union shall be adopted and for the completion
  of all their engagements.

16.

• Resd. that a Republican Constitution & its
  existing laws ought to be guaranteed to each State
  by the U. States.

17.

• Resd. that provision ought to be made for the
  amendment of the Articles of Union whensoever it
  shall seem necessary.

18.

• Resd. that the Legislative, Executive & Judiciary
  powers within the several States ought to be
  bound by oath to support the articles of Union.

19.

• Resd. that the amendments which shall be
  offered to the confederation by the Convention ought
  at a proper time or times after the approbation of
  Congs. to be submitted to an Assembly or Assemblies
  recommended by the several Legislatures to be
  expressly chosen by the people to consider and decide
  thereon.