University of Virginia Library

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 19.

The motion made yesterday by Mr. Hamilton for opening the
doors of Congress when the subject of the finances should be under
debate was negatived, Penna. alone being ay.

A motion was made by Mr. Hamilton seconded by Mr. Bland
to postpone the clause of the report made by the Come. of the
whole, for altering the Impost, viz. the clause limiting its duration
to 25 years, in order to substitute a proposition declaring it to be
inexpedient to limit the period of its duration; first because it
ought to be commensurate to the duration of the debt, 2dly. because
it was improper in the present stage of the business, and
all the limitation of which it wd. admit had been defined in the
resolutions of—, 1782.

Mr. Hamilton said in support of his motion that it was in vain
to attempt to gain the concurrence of the States by removing the
objections publickly assigned by them against the Impost, that
these were the ostensible & not the true objections; that the true
objection on the part of R. I. was the interference of the impost

with the opportunity afforded by their situation of levying contributions
on Cont., &c, which recd. foreign supplies through the
ports of R. I. that the true objection on the part of Vaa. was her
having little share in the debts due from the U. S. to which the
impost would be applied; that a removal of the avowed objections
would not therefore, remove the obstructions whilst it would
admit on the part of Congs. that their first recommendation went
beyond the absolute exigencies of the public; that Congs. having
taken a proper ground at first, ought to maintain it till time
should convince the States of the propriety of the measure.

Mr. Bland said that as the debt had been contracted by Congress
with the concurrence of the States, and Congs. was looked
to for payment by the public creditors, it was justifiable & requisite
in them to pursue such means as would be adequate to
the discharge of the debt; & that the means would not be adequate
if limited in duration to a period within which no calculations
had shewn that the debt wd. be discharged.

On the motion the States were N. Hampshire divided, Masts.
no, R. Island ay; Cont. divd.; N. York, ay, N. Jersey ay, Pena. ay,
Virga. no (Mr. Bland ay) N. Carolina ay S. Carolina, ay. Mr.
Rutledge said he voted for postponing not in order to agree to
Mr. Hamilton's motion but to move & he accordingly renewed
the motion made in Come. of the whole, viz that the Impost
should be appropriated exclusively to the army. This motion
was seconded by Mr. Lee.

Mr. Hamilton opposed the motion strenuously declared that as
a friend to the army as well as to the other Creditors & to the
public at large he could never assent to such a partial distribution
of Justice; that the different States being differently attached
to different branches of the public debt would never
concur in establishg. a fund wch. was not extended to every branch;
that it was impolitic to divide the interests of the civil & military
Creditors, whose joint efforts in the States would be necessary to
prevail on them to adopt a general revenue.

Mr. Mercer favored the measure as necessary to satisfy the
army & to avert the consequences which would result from their
disappointment on this subject; he pronounced that the arny
would not disband until satisfactory provision should be made, &

that this was the only attainable provision; But he reprobated
the doctrine of permanent debt supported by a general & permanent
revenue & said that it would be good policy to separate instead
of cementing the interests of the Army & the other public
creditors, insinuating that the claims of the latter were not supported
by justice & said that the loan office certificates ought to
be revised.

Mr. Fitzsimmons observed that it was unnecessary to make a
separate appropriation of the Impost to one particular debt, since
if other funds sd. be superadded, there would be more simplicity
& equal propriety in an aggregate fund for the aggregate debt
funded; and that if no other funds should be superadded it
wd. be unjust & impolitic; that the States whose Citizens were
the chief creditors of the U. S. wd. never concur in such a measure;
that the mercantile interest which comprehended the chief
Creditors of Pena. had by their influence obtained the prompt &
full concurrence of that State in the Impost, and if that influence
were excluded the State would repeal its law. He concurred
with those who hoped the army wd. not disband unless provision
sd. be made for doing them justice.

Mr. Lee contended that as every body felt and acknowledged
the force of the demands of the army, an appropriation of the
Impost to them wd. recommend it to all the States; that distinct
& specific appropriations of distinct revenue was the only true
System of finance, and was the practice of all other nations who
were enlightened on this subject; that the army had not only
more merit than the mercantile creditors; but that the latter
would be more able on a return of peace to return to the business
which would support them.

Mr. Madison said that if other funds were to be superadded as
the Gentleman (Mr. Rutledge) who made the motion admitted,
it was at least premature to make the appropriation in question;
that it wd. be best to wait till all the funds were agreed upon &
then appropriate them respectively to those debts to which they
sd. be best fitted that it was probable the impost would be judged
best adapted to the foreign debt; as the foreign Creditors could
not like the domestic ever recur to particular States for separate
payments and that as this wd. be a revenue little felt it would be

prudent to assign it to those for whom the States wd. care least, leaving
more obnoxious revenues for those Creditors who wd. excite the
Sympathy of their Countrymen and cd. stimulate them to do justice.

Mr. Williamson was agst. the motion; said he did not wish the
army to disband until proper provision should be made for them;
that if force sd. be necessary to excite justice, the sooner force
was applied the better.

Mr. Wilson was against the motion of Mr. Rutledge, he observed
that no instance occurred in the British history of finance
in which distinct appropriations had been made to distinct debts
already contracted; that a consolidation of funds had been the
result of experience; that an aggregate fund was more simple &
would be most convenient; that the interest of the whole funded
debt ought to be paid before the principal of any part of it; and
therefore in case of surplus of the impost beyond the interest of
the army debt, it ought at any rate to be applied to the interest
of the other debts, and not, as the motion proposed, to the principal
of the army debt. He was fully of opinion that such a motion
would defeat itself, that by dividing the interest of the civil
from that of the military Creditors provision for the latter would
be frustrated.

On the question on Mr. Rutledge's motion the States were,
N. H. no, Mass. no, Cont. no, N. J. no, Virga. no, (Mr. Lee and
Mr. Mercer ay) N. C. no, S. Carolina, ay.

On the clause reported by the Come. of the whole in favor of
limiting the impost to 25 years, the States were N. H. ay Mas.
ay Cont. divd.; (Mr. Dyer ay, Mr. Wolcot no) N. Y. no, N. J.
no, Pa. ay (Mr. Wilson & Mr. Fitzsimmons no) Va. ay (Mr. Bland
no) N. Carolina ay, S. Carolina ay, so the question was lost.

On the question whether the appointment of Collectors of the
Impost shall be left to the States, the Collectors to be under the
controul, & be amenable to Congs., there were 7 ays N. Y. &
Pena. being no & N. J. divided.