University of Virginia Library

11. Fleming, Effie Oakes

June 12, 1937

Field Worker: Hazel B. Greene

Interview with Mrs. Effie Oakes Fleming

Hugo, Oklahoma

Born: 3 1/2 miles northeast of Hugo

Parents: Joel E. Oakes, father, born near Old Goodwater. Choctaw Nation, on Red River, about 15 miles S. E. Hugo; Josephine Cronk, mother, born Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Mrs. Effie Oakes Fleming, forty-nine years old, one-sixteenth Choctaw Indian, daughter of Joel E. and Josephine Cronk Oakes, was born at the present home of her father, 3 1/2 miles northeast of Hugo, Oklahoma. I guess it was then Kiamichi County. She was raised there and got all of her schooling just a mile from home, at Nook Hill school. Started at the age of seven and finished U. S. History, Geography, Arithmetic, Spelling, Rhetoric, Algebra and elocution. The last year they had her study Texas history to keep her busy. Hers would probably equal the present day high school education. The schools weren't graded then. She finished school at fifteen years of age. Aunt Mary Oakes Hibbins died in 1928, and is buried at Oakes Cemetery. Three other children died young and are buried there of course.

About ten or fifteen years ago George Oakes bought out the other heirs of the old place but stipulated that the cemetery should still belong to all of the Oakes family.

After grandpa died, grandmother, made her home in the winter with the Tom Hibbins, at the home that she and grandfather settled. In summer she visited around, sometimes she would stay with us till late in the fall. I knew she was there a lot after I would start to school in the fall, and when I was studying history, she would tell us of the history of the Indian Territory, and of their coming to this "wilderness" over the "Trail of Tears". She was old and had nothing much to do but sit in the corner and live her life over and tell us about it. She said that everybody who was able to, had to walk, but if babies gave out of the parents could not carry them the drivers of the ox wagons would just take then and swing them against a tree and knock their brains out and leave them by the road side like a dog or a cat and not bury them. Her baby brother, Joel (who later became supreme court judge of the Choctaw Nation) was four years old and very fat. She was just eight years old, but she took her turn at carrying him because he could not walk much, and she said that she would get so tired she'd think she was going to die but she would hang on to him. She was so afraid they would kill him. She said she saw them kill babies who were too big to be carried and would give out walking. Nobody rode. Occasionally a woman was confined. She was permitted to ride for a few days.

There were ox wagons and they hauled necessities only; food, clothes, bedding, and garden seed. Those drivers were employed by the government just like grandpa was when he was sent out here.