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U.S. Saving Hanoi POWs From Thieu's Army

Saigon, DNSI - The Vietnamese
chief of a combined U.S. -
Vietnamese military interrogation
center admitted today that the
Geneva conventions on prisoners of
war are not fully applied to
prisoners held there.

Col. Nguyen Tran, who is in
charge of the combined military
interrogation center (CMIC) in
Saigon, confirmed a report by a
U.S. interrogator at the center that
prisoners of war being detained
there are not permitted any
exercise as called for by the Geneva
conventions on the treatment of
prisoners of war.

"The need of prisoners for
exercise and the requirements of
our job are contradictory," Col.
Tran said.

Asked if prisoners at the CMIC
are considered as coming under the
protection of the Geneva
conventions, he answered. "Yes and
no."

The Geneva conventions of
1949 on prisoners of war provide in
Article 38 that "prisoners shall have
opportunities for taking physical
exercise, including sports and
games, and for being out of doors."

In order to get the information
which the military needs to save
lives, Tran said, prisoners should be
isolated from each other." If
prisoners can communicate with
each other they won't talk," he
said.

"On the one hand, the Geneva
conventions say the prisoners must
not be mistreated." Tran
continued "On the other hand,
you must get information quickly,
When you have to choose between
your enemy and your friend, which
are you going to choose?"

Two years ago, the Vietnamese
command ordered interrogators at
CMIC not to beat prisoners, he said.
"Since then, we have not delivered
even one blow against the
prisoners." He added, "We have
other means to do the job," but he
would not elaborate.

An American interrogator at the
center, who asked that his name
not be used because he feared
prosecution by the army, charged
in an interview yesterday that
prisoners of war at the center not
only had no opportunity for
exercise but also received
inadequate water, food and
housing. He also said U.S.
interrogators use the threat of
mistreatment by ARVN authorities
to extract information from
unwilling prisoners.

The International Red Cross has
criticized the interrogation center
for failing to provide any exercise
for the prisoners, according to the
U.S. interrogator, but nothing has
been done to improve the situation,
Col. Tran would neither confirm
nor deny that the Red Cross had
made such a criticism.

The American interrogator said
prisoners are held in isolation cells
measuring about 4-½ feet by 8 feet,
with only a narrow slit at the top
for light. They sleep on the floor,
he said.

Article 25 of the conventions
provides that "prisoners of war
shall be quartered in conditions as
favorable as those for the forces of
the detaining power who are
billeted in the same areas. The same
article further provides that the
quarters "shall be adequately
heated and lighted, in particular
between dusk and lights out."

Prisoners at CMIC are only
allowed to have water twice a
day - after each meal-according to
the interrogator. Each prisoner is
allowed a couple of swallows from
a dipper, he said. They are
constantly thirsty and beg the
American interrogators to intervene
with Vietnamese authorities to give
them more water.

According to Article 26 of the
conventions, "Sufficient drinking
water shall be supplied to prisoners
of war."

Prisoners receive food which
ARVN (Army of the Republic of
Viet Nam) soldiers working in the
compound say they would not eat,
according to the interrogator.

When the Red Cross delegation
visits the center, he said, the
authorities are given about one
week's notice, and on the day of
the visit, the prisoners receive an
extra meal and more food at each
meal.

Asked to comment on these
charges, the director of the
American half of the center, Lt.
Col. Rodney Dickson, called them
"a complete fabrication," but said
he could not comment further. All
information pertaining to American
interrogation of prisoners of war
are classified, he said.

Although the Vietnamese are
responsible for housing, feeding and
caring for the prisoners of war at
the CMIC, prisoners are brought to
the center on the request of the
Americans, as Lt. Col. Dickson told
an aide to Congressman Paul
McCloskey recently. Dickson said
today that the interrogation center
was originally built by the U.S. and
is still owned by the U.S.

Dickson maintained that the
U.S. had no legal responsibility
under the Geneva Convention for
the treatment of prisoners by the
Vietnamese at CMIC. An officer
concerned with prisoner of war
affairs at the U.S. Embassy said,
however, that the U.S. accepts a
"residual responsibility" for all
Vietnamese prisoner of war,
facilities. Under the Geneva
Convention, he said, the treatment
of any prisoners captured by the
U.S. and turned over to the South
Vietnamese remains the
responsibility of the U.S.

Because POW facilities
administered by the South
Vietnamese Government contain
prisoners captured by the U.S., the
U.S. has accepted general
responsibility to insure that
treatment of POW's meets the
requirements of the Conventions.

The American interrogator said
that he and other U.S. interrogators
at the center are instructed not to
use physical force against the
prisoners, but they may threaten to
turn the prisoner back to the
ARVN.

The threat is effective when it is
used, he said, because "just about every one of the prisoners I've
talked to has been tortured at one
time or another by the ARVN."

"If a prisoner won't talk," he
continued, "I tell them. 'If you
don't cooperate with me, the
ARVNs will find out about it.'
Then they talk."

American interrogators usually
present themselves as "good guys,"
who can save the prisoner from
being maltreated by the "bad
guys," if they will cooperate with
them, he said.

This situation is quite different
from that in the field, where
interrogators are told to use
whatever means are necessary to get
information from prisoners, he said.